24 thoughts on “The Irony is Not Lost on Me

  1. The people have spoken — and rejected the heavy-handed attempt by gay activists to impose their agenda on everyone else. How you can abide by just four justices subverting the will of the people is unbelievable. It is irresponsible and reckless. You deserved to lose. YES ON 8!!!

  2. wow — maddog — i’m so saddened you felt compelled to come here and direct your hatred towards me — especially after i mentioned that i was crying.

  3. I find it disturbing how you immediately interpret any disagreement with your position as hatred. That is rank prejudice. A stronger word for it is bigotry.

    I can understand how you may be sad about the results of the vote on Proposition 8, but have you bothered to consider the terrible anguish caused by your advocacy, especially to some parents you have had to deal with actively homosexual children who have rejected the teachings of their faith? You should be crying for them too. But you aren’t. So…

  4. And what, exactly, does “having to deal” with homosexual children have to do with the right to get married for every citizen in this state? Why is there such “terrible anguish?”

    Also, is there a difference between a homosexual child who has rejected the faith he or she was brought up in and a heterosexual child who has rejected the faith?

  5. 4,883,460 voters (47.5%) said no to prop 8, up from 39% who said no to prop22 in 2000. More people are moving towards supporting marriage equality and recognizing our committed loving marriage. The greater irony is the distance between the earth and Saturn can be flexible :)

  6. Moya, I’m sure that if Prop 8 had failed, and you had posted here celebrating, you would still be getting people coming here and telling you how wrong you are and how the CA Supreme Court shouldn’t be allowed to make decisions, how everyone is so bigoted against the Christians, etc.

    Some people troll the Internet looking to make people upset just for fun. It’s too bad this guy doesn’t have anything better to do that go around saying “Ha, ha, we won, you lost, you suck, and it’s all your fault.”

  7. Maddog, the justices of the California Supreme Court did not “subvert the will” of the people. On this issue, the Court found the “will” of the people was besides the point, because the equal protection clause of the California Constitution protected the rights of all to marry the person of their choice. Prop 8 changed the Constitution in that respect. It is unfortunate the tyranny of the majority was able to oppress minority rights in this instance. That is the exact outcome our system of constitutional rights was set up to avoid. Prop 8, if it ultimately stands, shows a gap in our system of constitutional protection of rights. This “activist judges” meme is, with all due respect, a big steaming load of cow poop.

  8. I’ve had several ‘yes on 8’ people tell me it’s not about intolerance, but they’ve never been able to explain why. It all comes down to one group of people, which happens to have a voting % just a teeny tiny bit bigger, removing rights from another group. Rights that have in no way infringed upon the bigger group’s way of life. It’s sad, frustrating, and a huge step in the wrong direction for our state and country.

    The irony is that so much of the money for the yes campaign came from the Mormon church, which has been through its own history of marriage intolerance. It seems that history hasn’t taught them any lessons.

  9. Maddog, please take your empathy-impairment and your projections of bigotry, and go weep in your sandbox for all those anguished parents.

    Me? I’m on their children’s side; the ones who grew up as gay as god made them, then had to leave the churches (and families!) that no longer welcomed them.

    Moya’s a brick, and you’re a guest in her home. Show some fucking respect.

  10. The real danger of trolls and flame wars and general madness in comment areas on the internet: general erosion of respect. I’m not talking about hate-mongering or agenda-pushing, I’m talking about basic, reciprocal consideration of our mutual human-ness and the entitlement to opinions. I’m happy that lots of people have a viewpoint, a desire to argue, and have put their money where their mouth is by voting, engaging in activism and being committed to their cause.

    I’d be happier if we would remember that we’re thinking adults, hopefully raised to be more polite and respectful and OPEN than our typed insults.

    This is my opinion: I think that any combo of two humans should be allowed to create a legal, lasting bond. I have yet to hear a convincing argument otherwise. And, really, it’s just not a big deal to me. I have seen plenty of good couples and bad couples, good parents and bad parents, of all gender/orientation combinations. I think there’s a lot of issues where energy and attention and HEAT can be focused: education, health care, economy. Rome is burning! Why are we fiddling away on this one issue?

  11. I actually feel badly for the Yes on 8 folks. It must be terrible to feel so insecure in one’s own own sexuality that it becomes necessary to lash out at that of others.

    I also find it ironic the Yes on 8 campaign was funded in part by the Knights of Columbus, a bunch of Catholic men who like to dress up in feathered hats, capes, and other fashion accessories that would make the sincerest Cher impersonator blush…

  12. The greatest imposition comes from a majority that refuses to address their neighbor in love, but through the lens of an ancient text which has been wildly misinterpreted. Folks want the love that they hold for each other to be recognized and we find it to be terribly anguishing… The majority and the minority are going to agree soon enough. Not in spite love, but because of it. “Yes” on LOVE.

  13. Maddog, your words are seeping with hatred. If you actually feel that they aren’t then you are disillusioned. You may be a man of faith, but you severely lack the integrity, understanding, and respect it takes to be favorable in the eyes of any god. You deserve all the anguish you may have in your life.

    And, be assured that, although now you sit on your moral high ground, filled with all the happiness in the world… giddy as a school boy that a gay couples marital union isn’t recognized by the state of California… the day will come. Hopefully your not rotting in a coffin when it does, but it is going to happen and there is not a damn thing you can do about it. The day will come… Don’t you forget it!

    And remember that too, Moya, the day will come. Your sacrifice will not go in vain. I promise.

  14. Many of us in New York as well as family (like my 80 y/0 mother in Oregon) and friends of mine in particular were supporting No on 8 with money and phone calling, and watching it very closely…and are very saddened by this outcome. Its unfortunate that people like Maddog feel its fine to dictate the rights of human beings. Opinions should be expressed freely but shouldnt be made law when they infringe on basic human rights.

    Moya and Leanne, youre still married and dont you forget it!!!

  15. I love you, Moya. You are an absolutely amazing human being and you have inspired me so much! You have always supported me and I can’t thank you enough for all the love and wisdom you have shared with me and so many others! If it were not for people like you, there is no way we could have seen 48% of Californian’s stand up to discrimination. You rock! Don’t let this guy get you down, you are so much stronger than that. I am so proud of YOU!!!

  16. I am reminded of an episode of Good Times in which a gang of thugs tried to force one of Thelma’s brothers into a gang. Thelma came to her brother’s aid and the leader of the gang confronted her. He attempted to intimidate her by mocking her name. He asked, “Thelma’?! How’d you get a name like ‘Thelma’?” to which the brave sister replied, “Well, when I was born my momma and daddy looked down on me [with love] and named me ‘Thelma’, just like when you were born your momma and daddy looked at you and called you ‘Mad Dog’.”

  17. Sending much love and positivity your way, Moya. I can’t imagine what you’re going through. I truly FEEL though that this matter isn’t over. The uproar all over the country is palpable. xoxo

    Now for Maddog…

    You wrote: “I find it disturbing how you immediately interpret any disagreement with your position as hatred…”

    ummm, let’s see. Where to start. Perhaps, Maddog, it was your entirely unconstructive, gloating, heartlessness that lead to Moya’s “interpretation”? Or maybe it was your venomous pontificating on someone else’s turf?

    “have you bothered to consider the terrible anguish caused by your advocacy, especially to some parents you have had to deal with actively homosexual children who have rejected the teachings of their faith?”

    Homosexuality is nothing new. It’s been a fact for millennia. Myopic, insecure cretins such as yourself need to get your heads out of the sand. It’s a reality.

    Advocating gay/lesbian marriage is NOT going to influence the sexuality of anyone, other than to encourage safety and acceptance within a society which legitimizes everyone for whom they choose to love. Please. If gay/lesbian had the kind of power of which you speak, they’d be doing MUCH grander things than turning everyone gay.

    p.s. Maddog, surely you realize your name spelled backwards is goddam. I’m not sure, but I think you can go to hell for that.

  18. Since when was expressing a contrary opinion “heartlessness”? And now those who disagree are “cretins”?

    It is impossible to reason with you IRRATIONAL BIGOTS. Try to THINK instead of just forcing everyone else to accept your agenda.

    And, no, you’re not thinking when it came to the nick I use. I’m not surprised. Good thing you bigots LOST!

  19. “The question is not one of acceptance, but one of forgiveness. It is not whether you will accept us, but whether we will find it in our hearts to forgive you.” (James Baldwin)

  20. Ah Moya — I’m so sad that you’re sad. I’ve been thinking about you and Leanne and Lucy and this issue all week. Don’t listen to the bigots. There’s a lot of fearmongering and bigotry spewed on this issue and many others. But so, so many people do support yours and all gay marriages. Your day will come.

    And to the original commenter… please explain why families who have gay children leaving their religious teachings has anything to do with tkaing away fundamental human rights? Since when does this issue of faith justify legislation? Shouldn’t the gov’t and courts stay out of people’s religious lives? How can anyone say that it is the gov’ts duty to legislate morality? That is really the basis of your argument; you are starting from a faulty, illogical premise. (Similar arguments were used, I’m sure, to say that inter-racial couples couldn’t marry. And that schools had to be segrgated. But I suppose I’m making a huge assumption in thinking that those arguments would work for you. Bigotry is bigotry. Perhaps you didn’t like those minority protections put in place either.)

  21. Comments moderation enabled.

    I am aware that if I wear my heart out on my sleeve, it’s going to take some bruising. It’s with a bruised heart that I close the comments on this thread and enable temporary moderation on my beloved blog.

    If there’s anything this campaign has taught me, it’s that words matter. But they are often easily dispensed, and often when they will really hurt the most. I hope that, moving forward, everyone takes an extra moment when they come as a visitor to my pages to consider posting and propagating love and compassion first. My heartfelt thanks goes to those of you that have taken time out to do just that.

    It is evident that many of us are hurting each other with words, on any and all sides. What disturbs me most however, at the moment, is that I seem to be hurting people by just existing.

    I wish that I could show everyone my heart, and in my idealism, everyone would see it is all about being kind and loving and — yes — fallible, just like yours. I wish we could continue to engage in conversation. We’re all obviously too raw at the present, but I have hopes for one day.

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